By the way, according to the Old Testament, the Jewish nation is NOT the Old Testament nation of Israel. It’s a breakaway nation – descendants of the Nation of Judah after the original Nation of Israel broke up into two parts – the kingdoms of Judah and Israel. These two kingdoms made war upon each other and had their own kings.
The descendants of the Kingdom of Israel are the “lost tribes of Israel” and according to Biblical Prophecy, must be restored before any “true” (Biblical Old Testament) nation of Israel can exist depending on your eschatological flavour. This is not to be confused with some who believe in a Christian doctrine which believes that no physical nation of Israel has anything to with the “end times,” indeed it is Christians who are now the “spiritual” nation of Israel and have replaced the Israelites as “God’s Chosen People.”
It never ceases to amaze me how many Christians don’t even know their own holy books. The Jews are only one part of the descendants of the original Nation of Israel and their forefathers made war against the other part of the Nation of Israel, according to The Holy Bible.
And it’s pretty scary to see so many calling for military strikes against Arab nations, and who have influence upon the work of some Statists.
Update: “DrWright” comments “if someone want’s me in a doomsday cult I need the original text.”
He’s right. These sorts of Christians calling for and hoping for the Battle of Armageddon really are a “death cult.” Not much difference between the goals of these folk and extreme Muslims. These folk want to rejoice at the killings of children and people in a war so that their “Saviour” can return. Some “religion of peace” that is, huh?
Now what chapter line and verse does it say, that “the US needs to attack Iran so that the Messiah will appear”? I never read that.
If someone want’s me in a doomsday cult I need the original text. 🙂
However I only found these a year ago on a topic thats in the news lots. So I’m human, never read the whole book and some parts they skip in church and some they do over and over and over.
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Matthew 10:14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
Matthew 10:15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!
Romans 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Romans 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
Romans 1:25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
Romans 1:27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
Romans 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
Romans 1:30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Romans 1:31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful;
Romans 1:32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
1 Corinthians 10: 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.
1 Corinthians 10:7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1 Corinthians 10:8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;
1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites,
1 Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
1 Corinthians 6:-19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
Collosians 3:5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Collosians 3:6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience
2 Peter 2:6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 1:8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.
Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes[o] an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Revelation 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
The hilarious thing is “the rapture” that’s supposed to pull these people to Heaven before the big final battle, doesn’t exist in the Book of Revelation, and these Bible literalists have to go through handsprings in order to try and justify it.
Even moreso: the Book of Revelation almost didn’t make the cut when the early Christians met to finalize the structure of the Bible. And given what these people are doing to embarrass my religion, I almost hope it was left out. One wonders what Christianity would be like if the New Testament ended on an obscure letter by Paul to the somethingorothers.
James, as far as an eschatology is concerned, Preterism is probably the most consistent. Preterists generally don’t believe in these scary “end times” scenarios and say that the Second Coming already happened, in 74AD.
It’s quite an interesting theory if you’re into that. If interested, I’ll provide some resources for you. Some claim that Preterism is “new,” but that’s not true either. Historicallly, there have been a number of theologians that have held preterist views.
“ended on an obscure letter by Paul to the somethingorothers.”
Heh… I had to giggle at that one, James 🙂
Intriguing. Tell me more (by e-mail, if you’d prefer)
Two thumbs up for preterism. There are plenty of diverging views, including Todd Dennis’ “Pret-Idealism” which I tend towards.
Ask any Rapture-ready Christian why John uses terms like “soon”, “near”, and “at hand” so much in the book of Revelation (three times in chapter one and three times in the last chapter, at least). If “soon” doesn’t mean “soon” (as in, soon to the original author and audience), then what does it mean?
Temujin…
I have great respect for the fact people have “faith.” What gets me though is that faith, whether it is Muslim or Christian, or anything else, that demands violence towards others as some “requirement of the One True God.”
Years ago, before I finally rejected Christiianity, I must say that I found Preterists to be the most “in line” with what Jesus apparently taught: Love.
And redemption for as many as possible.
And a “positive” world view.
I wonder how many “non Preterist” Christians would actually choose to live 2,000 years ago, and not today if they could be given the opportunity. All those “worldly” things they bitch and moan about… probably also promote their own loved ones lives.
When I was a Christian, it was possibly the idea that indeed, lving in the 20th century with medicines, and ideas and philosophies that actually extended people’s lives regardless of the beliefs about a Christian God by those that disovered the ideas, promoted preterism for me.
Why the hell, rationallly speaking, would any “Non Preterist” Christian be actually intererested and actually use any of what is “medical sicence’ to extend lives here on earth, when there is apparently so much more waiting for them in some place called “heaven?”
Yes, and yes, and yes.
Although I’m still a little leary about putting extremist Muslims and extremist Christians in the same category. When I see John Hagee, Kenneth Copeland, Tim LeHay, Jack Van Impe, and the rest of these Rapture Wingnuts taking up arms and heading overseas to usher in Messiah, then I’ll get worked up. They can talk and talk and talk all they want and no one is going to get hurt (except spiritually, I suppose). Whereas we hear news reports of extremist Muslims wreaking havoc, taking lives, and destroying property on a daily basis. IMO, there is still a large chasm between the perils or extremist Christianity, and that of extremist Islam.
And it’s not only Christians who are encouraging strikes against Iran (as far as I can tell, he isn’t an evangelical).
Well, Temujin – I guess for some, waging war or calling for war via a “State” is ‘different’ than someone taking up arms individually, huh?
The result is the same though. People get killed and maimed.
Using your argument, Bin Laden is probably a nice guy. He didn’t actually take up arms himself, just as Haggi hasn’t.
Hell, Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley are probably nice guys too. Real good Christians, the pair of them.
Temujin, not sure where you were a few years ago, but did you see the news reports about the big “show” in Baghdad? I think there was some property destruction going on.
Hey, did you see the video where folks were calling for military strikes against Iran? I kinda think there would be some havoc and property destruction with that too.
Them Christians didn’t seem to be too concerned about that.
So yeah, I would put them in the same category as extreme Muslims.
But I’m glad they have freedom of expression, so I know what their ideas are all about.
Kind of funny to hear them talking about praying for the Jews. But Satan controls the Muslims. Guess Muslims aren’t worth praying for.
Just like some Muslims will use the Koran for their own purposes, some Christians do the same thing.
And historically, I’d put it to you that in the name of “Christianity,” millions upon millions have been killed. Christians that want to generalize about Muslims and Islam ought to take a good long hard look at their own “heritage.”
And to see today that some of them continue to call for violence and war against others… yeah man… that’s categorically wrong. Their methods and strategy might be different than some Palestinian Terrorist on the streets, but the results are the same – possibly even worse.
Nuclear strikes???
Sheesh.
And some people in the US even voted for some of these wingnuts and put them in power.
James,
http://eschatology.com/enter.html – there are some article links there. The author and website owner is a good friend of mine.
I’ll check it out.
“What gets me though is that faith, whether it is Muslim or Christian, or anything else, that demands violence towards others as some “requirement of the One True God.””
That *is* a problem, and it’s not an easy one for a faithful person like me to answer. I simply don’t understand it. I mean, consider how powerful God would be, if he existed. I talked a bit about that here. Now, consider, as big as God is and as inconceivable as he is, how can we believe that we could design an artificial religion that is “right” in every way? Understanding God is a lifelong struggle; we should have respect for those who take this struggle from different angles.
Fundamentally, the question should be: do you believe that God is a benevolent creator; that he wants us to be healthy and happy and good to one another? If that’s the case, then why would he damn us randomly for worshipping him by another name?
I realize that faith exists in contradiction to the scientific method — God can’t be proven, and once you have proof you don’t need to believe — but faith shouldn’t mean blind certainty in assumptions that only really extend to the confines of your brain.
James Bow try to keep it in perspective as much as I don’t like muslims blowing up infidels[me]
the fact is the numbers they kill are small compared to say communism. Commies have yet to be around 100 yrs but have killed over 100 million for not wanting to be collectivized etc.
I mean there were 2000 deaths in the spanish inquisition but you keep hearing about it. Whereas Canada kills that many by abortion every few days,
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0009.html
Update: “DrWright” comments “if someone want’s me in a doomsday cult I need the original text.”
He’s right.
[that’s not something I hear every day]
now to go OT, way OT
“anarchist poetry” this hymn was in sung in schools in Barcelona after progressives got rid of all the pesky christian stuff for this. in the 30’s to launch the revolution.
It doesn’t rhyme but it might have in Spanish.
Sling the bomb;
place well the mine;
grasp firm the pistol,
Pass on the word of revolution…
Help for the anarchists.
Stand to arms till Death;
with petrol and dynamite destroy the government
My schooling seems boring.
DrWright, I suppose it is not unexpected that ‘catholiceducation.org’ would publish such a low number of deaths when historians put the figure at a minimum of 30,000 and possibly 300,000.
But whatever the numbers are, it’s a tragedy that even 1 person would be put to death, don’t you agree?